The government minister said a new road could be built to ease congestion, saying all options were being considered
The M4 at junction 27 High Cross, Newport, which the Welsh Government is considering fully closing as part of plans to tackle congestion on the motorway(Image: John Myers)
Wales’ transport minister had a blunt message to the people of Newport who oppose plans to shut M4 junctions, telling them: “The M4 isn’t working”.
Plaid Cymru Transport Minister Mark Hooper responded to criticism from the city of plans to fully or partially shut some of the M4 junctions in the city in an interview with WalesOnline.
He said the plans, which the Welsh Government is considering to reduce congestion in the M4 in the short to medium term, are aimed at treating the problems of traffic in Newport and congestion on the M4 separately.
He said: “I think the premise that Newport and the M4 are working in any way coherently at the moment, I think is something that we’ve all got to be honest about, and to me it doesn’t work.
“I’ve tried to characterise the work that we’re doing – it’s not just an M4 issue, it’s actually an M4 and Newport issue. I think that when you’re coming off those junctions at the moment you’re not going onto a road that works.
“This is not a solution that works for people today. I think that the answer is that I’m taking this on as a Newport and an M4 issue, so it’s as important for me to be able to resolve the intra-Newport issues as it is to resolve the M4, and those things go hand in hand.
“I appreciate and recognise that people will be concerned about this and I made it clear in the chamber, and I’ll make it clear again to your readers, I’m intending on personally engaging in these conversations and making sure that we deliver against the mitigations that are needed to make it better, because you can’t have a situation where we allow the status quo to continue and I think the status quo in Newport is as bad as the status quo on the M4. They’re both problems that we need to address and solve.
“I’ve spoken to Jayne [Senedd Member Jayne Bryant] and Dimitri [Newport council leader Dimitri Bayouni] about this and given them my personal assurance that that’s what I’ll do as well, and I appreciate that that hasn’t hit home yet, but part of the opportunity for me is to continue that engagement at the level of honesty and directness.”
The plans announced by the Welsh Government this week, which include potentially closing junctions on the M4 and an 18-month review of all the options for the motorway, have already triggered a backlash, with more than 6,500 people signing an online petition and criticism from political opponents.
At the news was announced to Senedd members, Casnewydd Islwyn MS Jayne Bryant told the transport minister: “Local people, including in surrounding areas like Risca, Blackwood and Cwmbran, need to have their voices heard, and people haven’t been involved at this point. These people aren’t just data points in a transport policy document; they are individuals, families and businesses whose lives will be impacted.” For our free daily briefing on the biggest issues facing the nation, sign up to the Wales Matters newsletter here
Newport council leader Dimitri Batrouni said he will oppose any closures. Mr Hooper said his message to them, and the people of Newport more widely, was that he will listen
Asked if the closures would be at certain times of day, or total closures, he said: “It could be a number of things.
“I think personally, I think we need to make sure we do this properly so we’re careful that we don’t have something that we’re then going to change our mind over three years later, five years later, whatever the situation is.
“I think a lot of these thoughts and ways of being able to resolve some issues have sat on a shelf in Welsh Government for a long time. These aren’t new ideas – these are things that have been left hanging for a long time.
“I think me taking on and deciding to deal with that also gives me the opportunity to go and deal with the issues in Newport as well.”
He said all options will be on the table to create a longlist but he said the so-called black route will not be because parts of that proposed road have already been built on.
“That route no longer exists – that is no longer an option in the way that it was said before. So when it’s: ‘Why don’t you just go and do that?’ that’s not an option.
“We have to go back and see, based on what we know is going to be in the case in 2042 or those sort of timescales, what will make a difference.
“The black route was cancelled in 2019. A lot of things have changed since then, not least of which the amount of van drivers that are utilising the motorway – that’s the biggest single increase that we’ve seen because of delivery services.
“There’s a lot of things that we need to be able to reflect on to make sure we make the right decision and I think what I’m not prepared to do, and this government isn’t prepared to do, is make a decision that’s just a knee-jerk reaction – we’ve got to make sure that we plan this out carefully. However we are moving and actually taking action on it.”
He said, though, that an entirely new road on a new route cannot be ruled out. “I’m not going to rule in and I’m not going to rule out anything,” he said.
Responding to readers’ comments that the 50mph speed limits should be increased to improve flow he said that will not happen.
“The 50mph speed actually makes the traffic run better. It’s been proven consistently that it does. It reduces the amount of collisions and it actually helps traffic flow rather than restricts traffic flow, which is one of the things that we need to do.
“We’re talking about 50mph temporary changes up in the north as speed limits can help traffic flow. The concertina effect is where you get real problems, and that’s why junction amendments are so important to this as well, to make those junctions work better, because when people weave in and then, I have to brake because that guy’s just come directly in front of me, that’s not just me braking, it’s everyone behind as well.
“Those effects we can reduce, which will help flow.”
He told WalesOnline he believes this time, after years of discussions, a scheme to improve congestion will be delivered.
Asked how he can be sure the scheme will succeed, given there is currently no funding, he said: “The M4 is a multifaceted thing of activity. You’ve got elements that are within our current budget profile, so things like the strategic road network, we’re putting the budgets in to maintain that.
“We’re in the budgetary process at the moment. As part of that budget process, the bids that we put in are for this activity, so this is the stuff that we would put into it.”
He said there have been “good conversations” with the UK Government on funding the development of railway stations in and around Newport – you can see all the details of those here. “But when it comes to Burns, which is the big ticket item on the five-year plan, it’s £800m from the UK government that is part of that £14b commitment that they’ve made before,” he said, referencing a rail promise from the Starmer administration.
“We’ve had good conversations with UK Government. We now need them to be profiled within the spending review period that the chancellor is going to be talking to in the budget.
“We’re asking John Healey to put a billion pounds in for rail capital in the budget announcement that coming to the UK parliament in October,” he said.
That money would be spent until 2030, he said.
“The conversation with the UK Government has been really positive. They’ve been engaged, they’ve been adult. We’ve had a situation where we’ve both been having conversations that talk about how we build a future that we both agree with. We agree with the Transport for Wales vision document, the £14bn, that sets the scene – it’s then how we get there.” Ensure our latest news and sport headlines always appear at the top of your Google Search by making us a Preferred Source. Click here to activate or add us as Preferred Source in your Google search settings
That £14bn pledge was dismissed by Plaid when in opposition as nothing more than a promise. He wouldn’t be drawn on that.
“I think the big difference in that Department for Transport have agreed that despite this being Network Rail track, the station build will be done by Transport for Wales, which is huge for us, because I think we can get things done two years faster than we would do had we relied on Network Rail there or thereabouts.
“We also keep all of the benefits of that work in Wales, so the economy of Wales will benefit directly from the work that we’ll be doing.
“And actually we’ve got people in Wales responsible for the things we deliver, so the accountability that we’ve got is to me directly to Transport for Wales, so this has been a huge change.
“I think it shows we’re focused on the practicality, and I think one of the things that helped that is because of the work they’ve done on the Core Valley Lines previously. We’ve got the supply chain sorted, we’ve got the people, we’ve got the skills, and we need to build on those because this is another step in that journey.”
He said the vision document from Transport for Wales spelling out its plans to build seven new stations in Wales was the right approach.
“I’ve accepted that as being the strategy for Wales rail for two reasons. One, because I think it’s important that we maintain a strategic focus over time, so you can’t go flitting, you’ve got to be consistent.
“But the second reason is I think it’s really good. I think this is a really good piece of work. I think it addresses the issues that we wanted it to address, and I think it’s the sort of thing that, it’s a 15-year document, so it goes beyond this term of this government, and I think that the people of Wales deserve to know that actually we’re in this collectively for the long term on this particular thing.
“I think carrying it on is good politics but I think it’s actually good for the end user and the travelling public . For the people that travel now and those people we want to travel using trains it’s a very good document”.
